Did God Purposely Tempt Adam and Eve - Answers to Biblical Questions Part 2
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2009
by Teresa Ortiz
Freelance writer/Speaker
In part two of this topic, I will address four of the many questions asked by Philip, as they relate to one another. These have to do with the tree of knowledge, why God would tempt his children and why the punishment for disobedience was passed on to Adam and Eve's children. Discussing these issues will lead us to the forth issue, which is the idea of all people being God's children.
I will go back to the bible to let it answer these biblical questions for us. I fully acknowledge there are those who do not believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God to man. My point is not to convince otherwise, only to offer answers as to why many Christians believe the way they do. I also acknowledge there are varying degrees of understanding and interpretation within the body of Christ. This makes perfect sense as we all come from different backgrounds and traditions. Nevertheless, there are many constants within the differing denominations of Christianity and three of them are the origin of man, the concept of original sin, and the need for forgiveness and restoration to a Holy God. It is with this in mind that I humbly and prayerfully offer the following explanations.
On the tree of knowledge –
"Then God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth"…Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Genesis 1:26,15-17.
In this passage of Scripture we see several things; that man was created in the image of God and in His likeness – what is God like? He is a spiritual being that has no end, and is pure in thought and action, and is a loving creator who will teach and discipline when necessary.
We see that Adam and Eve and all of mankind were never intended to die as is evident from the statement "in that day you eat, you shall surely die. Next, we see that freedom of choice was instituted by God when he laid out the commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The question is raised, why would God tempt them on purpose? God did not tempt them, but gave them free will. He created mankind for fellowship in a loving relationship with Him. In order for love to be genuine, it cannot be forced – would it really be love if there were no choice? In God's love and foreknowledge, he knew they would stray, so he warned them what would happen if they did, and he already had a plan in place to restore them to fellowship when they did.
"Let no one say when he is tempted ‘I am tempted by God', for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away with his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." James 1:13 – 15
Eve was tempted by Satan, he planted thoughts in her head and told half-truths about God's intent in keeping them from eating the fruit, she fed on those initial thoughts, and it gave birth to sin.
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate." Genesis 3:6
It was the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life that caused her to sin. (1 John 2:15-17) In effect, she allowed the twisted lies of Satan to lead her thoughts to a place where she convinced herself that God must be keeping something good away from them. God gave them everything – any tree for food, dominion over the land and freedom to fellowship with Him at any time, and it wasn't good enough.
The result was banishment from the Garden. Why – because in this same garden was the tree of life. And since they were now in a fallen and sinful state, God did not want them to eat of this tree. If they had, they would remain in their sinful state for all eternity. (This is explained in detail in another article found here.)
One might suggest the bible's inconsistency in that Adam and Eve did not die that day, so therefore there is no reason to go on with this story. However, closer examination shows us they did die. They died spiritually (separated from fellowship with God) and they died physically as well – that "day" just as it says.
"And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees in the garden. Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?' So he said, ‘I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself." Genesis 3:8-10
"Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear." Isaiah 59:1-2
"But beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8
We see that Adam and Eve ran away and hid from God, they didn't want Him to see them or hear them – and we learn that Adam lived to be 930 years old. (Gen 5:5)
The beauty is that we read that God reached out to restore fellowship. In his Justice he could have left them spiritually dead, but in His mercy he called out to them, giving them an opportunity to repent and acknowledge their sin. In God's Holiness, he had to keep his word in that sin brings death – and in this, he sacrificed an animal and made tunics to "cover" their sin – this was a picture of the ultimate sacrifice Jesus would make. God gave life for life.
The next question raised, is why were their children punished as well. The answer is as simple as looking at life today – if a woman were to drink alcohol and use drugs while pregnant, the child will suffer the consequences. They are not punished, but rather the unfortunate recipient of sinful behavior. Naturally speaking, they will have to do what they can to repair the damage caused by their mother.
And so it goes spiritually, which leads us to the final question/comment for this article.
On all people being a child of God –
As Genesis tells us, man was created in the image of God. But through disobedience, we lost the spiritual ability to display His attributes. We instead carry the image of the first man Adam, who birthed sin into the line of man and caused everyone to be born spiritually dead – hence the need to be born again by the Spirit of God, thus becoming his child, so that we may once again be transformed into the image of God through Christ.
The bible clearly teaches that God is the Father; however, not everyone is his child, only his creation. It teaches that we are adopted as children through faith in Christ. Before Jesus was born, people became a child of God through faith in God and his coming Messiah.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all have sinned…For if by the one man's offense death reigned through one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ" Romans 5:12, 17
"He [Jesus] came to His own, but His own did not receive him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-12
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26
"But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." Galatians 4:4
The choice is ours. God the Father is loving, but He is also just and His very character calls Him to be true to His word – He lays life and death before us as His creation, we decide our fate: Respond to His call and restore our fellowship with Him, or remain in our separated state for all eternity.
God is not the tempter; He is the giver of life.
Thank you again for staying with me, it was impossible to keep this short and still there is much more to say regarding these issues. I welcome continued discussion in the comments section, and as always, invite other believers to add insight to the topic.
I pray this will at least give cause to search the Scriptures with a heart that calls on God and His Holy Spirit to give spiritual eyes and minds to better understand the things of God.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
This brings us to the perfect will of God, the permissive will of God, and God's "chosen" people coming soon in part three.
(For a more in-depth, theological perspective, please visit http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/178 and/or http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html)
© Teresa Ortiz
On the tree of knowledge –
"Then God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth"…Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Genesis 1:26,15-17.
In this passage of Scripture we see several things; that man was created in the image of God and in His likeness – what is God like? He is a spiritual being that has no end, and is pure in thought and action, and is a loving creator who will teach and discipline when necessary.
We see that Adam and Eve and all of mankind were never intended to die as is evident from the statement "in that day you eat, you shall surely die. Next, we see that freedom of choice was instituted by God when he laid out the commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The question is raised, why would God tempt them on purpose? God did not tempt them, but gave them free will. He created mankind for fellowship in a loving relationship with Him. In order for love to be genuine, it cannot be forced – would it really be love if there were no choice? In God's love and foreknowledge, he knew they would stray, so he warned them what would happen if they did, and he already had a plan in place to restore them to fellowship when they did.
"Let no one say when he is tempted ‘I am tempted by God', for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away with his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." James 1:13 – 15
Eve was tempted by Satan, he planted thoughts in her head and told half-truths about God's intent in keeping them from eating the fruit, she fed on those initial thoughts, and it gave birth to sin.
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate." Genesis 3:6
It was the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life that caused her to sin. (1 John 2:15-17) In effect, she allowed the twisted lies of Satan to lead her thoughts to a place where she convinced herself that God must be keeping something good away from them. God gave them everything – any tree for food, dominion over the land and freedom to fellowship with Him at any time, and it wasn't good enough.
The result was banishment from the Garden. Why – because in this same garden was the tree of life. And since they were now in a fallen and sinful state, God did not want them to eat of this tree. If they had, they would remain in their sinful state for all eternity. (This is explained in detail in another article found here.)
One might suggest the bible's inconsistency in that Adam and Eve did not die that day, so therefore there is no reason to go on with this story. However, closer examination shows us they did die. They died spiritually (separated from fellowship with God) and they died physically as well – that "day" just as it says.
"And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees in the garden. Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?' So he said, ‘I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself." Genesis 3:8-10
"Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear." Isaiah 59:1-2
"But beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8
We see that Adam and Eve ran away and hid from God, they didn't want Him to see them or hear them – and we learn that Adam lived to be 930 years old. (Gen 5:5)
The beauty is that we read that God reached out to restore fellowship. In his Justice he could have left them spiritually dead, but in His mercy he called out to them, giving them an opportunity to repent and acknowledge their sin. In God's Holiness, he had to keep his word in that sin brings death – and in this, he sacrificed an animal and made tunics to "cover" their sin – this was a picture of the ultimate sacrifice Jesus would make. God gave life for life.
The next question raised, is why were their children punished as well. The answer is as simple as looking at life today – if a woman were to drink alcohol and use drugs while pregnant, the child will suffer the consequences. They are not punished, but rather the unfortunate recipient of sinful behavior. Naturally speaking, they will have to do what they can to repair the damage caused by their mother.
And so it goes spiritually, which leads us to the final question/comment for this article.
On all people being a child of God –
As Genesis tells us, man was created in the image of God. But through disobedience, we lost the spiritual ability to display His attributes. We instead carry the image of the first man Adam, who birthed sin into the line of man and caused everyone to be born spiritually dead – hence the need to be born again by the Spirit of God, thus becoming his child, so that we may once again be transformed into the image of God through Christ.
The bible clearly teaches that God is the Father; however, not everyone is his child, only his creation. It teaches that we are adopted as children through faith in Christ. Before Jesus was born, people became a child of God through faith in God and his coming Messiah.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all have sinned…For if by the one man's offense death reigned through one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ" Romans 5:12, 17
"He [Jesus] came to His own, but His own did not receive him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-12
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26
"But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." Galatians 4:4
The choice is ours. God the Father is loving, but He is also just and His very character calls Him to be true to His word – He lays life and death before us as His creation, we decide our fate: Respond to His call and restore our fellowship with Him, or remain in our separated state for all eternity.
God is not the tempter; He is the giver of life.
Thank you again for staying with me, it was impossible to keep this short and still there is much more to say regarding these issues. I welcome continued discussion in the comments section, and as always, invite other believers to add insight to the topic.
I pray this will at least give cause to search the Scriptures with a heart that calls on God and His Holy Spirit to give spiritual eyes and minds to better understand the things of God.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
This brings us to the perfect will of God, the permissive will of God, and God's "chosen" people coming soon in part three.
(For a more in-depth, theological perspective, please visit http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/178 and/or http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html)
© Teresa Ortiz
This Article has been viewed 2,611 times. (Not updated in real-time.)
More commentsAs always, Teresa, much study and research went into this Bible answer article. Thanks for sharing.Thanks Lorrie, Im'a prayin' and I know you are too! I have a long way to go! T
This article was a great read. Thanks for sharing your insight here. This has given me much to think about while I look at the clouds and wonder where the rain is. Thanks for writing this.Hi Michael, thank you for reading, I am glad it has you looking up :-)I am awed by God's power and majesty when I am standing on a cliff overlooking the ocean. I can only imagine how awesome the natural beauty of the world was before it was corrupted. I can't say I am wondering where the rain is, but I could go for it being 10 degrees cooler where I am :-) Blessings to you! Teresa
30 July 2009Dear Teresa,Once again, thanks for all the time you are taking on my behalf. You are a pleasure to read.Let me start off with a point of agreement. You say, "Sin is sin simply because God is creator and we are the created and what he says goes." OK, granted. I will try not to explore this question any further.A number of your other statements leave me perplexed. I don't understand what you mean by "incest as we know it today did not exist then so it wasn't repugnant to God." Incest means sexual relationships, consensual or otherwise, between close relatives. Rape between brothers and sisters and parents and children still constitutes incest. I do not believe that Genesis says anything about the incest needed to populate the earth was always consensual. Could you please be more explicit about how incest today is fundamentally different from what it was then?Could you please clarify something for me? You say that Eve had the power to reject Satan's enticement: "All she had to do was call His name and He would have given her the strength to resist." If I understand this correctly, if Eve had called on Him for help, she would not have fallen into sin. However, because she was either too bamboozled by Satan to know what she was doing or too weak to resist, God stood by and did nothing. Thus, she fell into sin, which then infected Adam, and ultimately all of humanity down the ages. Is this correct?The discussion of the deteriorating gene pool also raises questions. If the gene pool started deteriorating because of Adam and Eve's sin, this must have been God's will. So if at a certain point He decided things had gone far enough, He could have easily stopped the process rather than proscribing the practice of incest. I do not question why He chose the one means over the other. But it does rather make you think. Also, birth defects occur in the children of people have no close family relationships, but do not always occur in the children of people who do. Again food for thought.Your suggestion why nakedness is associated with sin is intriguing. You say, "Perhaps it is because the sinful and lustful part of man that was birthed out of their disobedience would cause them to look at others who are naked in an unhealthy way." Nakedness became sinful at the time of Adam and Eve; there was no one else around for them to look at. Likewise for their children and their children's children. They were supposed to engage in sexual relationships to populate the earth, for which nakedness is required.Since you made use of modern science to discuss the deterioration of the gene pool, I will make use of modern science with regard to nakedness. I believe that most sociological studies show that there is considerably less lust and illicit sex (if that is what you mean by looking at others who are naked in an unhealthy way) among nudists than other groups. For them, nakedness is not a stimulant, just an everyday fact of life. Some years ago, I visited Nairobi, capital of Kenya, during the country's Independence Day celebration. As part of the festivities, people were brought in from a remote bush village to perform tribal dance. In their region it was normal for women to be bare-breasted. However, in order not to offend the sensibilities of the spectators, the dancers were required to cover up. I have never seen anything so incongruous as grass-skirted woman wearing pristine white brassieres. The effect, of course, was to draw attention to precisely that which otherwise would have gone largely unnoticed.If being adopted as a child of God before the birth of Jesus required both faith in God and faith in His coming Messiah, I agree that because Adam and Eve had walked with God daily in the Garden, they were probably exempt. But what about their children, their children's children, etc.? As best I recall, Genesis says nothing about them ever having walked with God or indeed had any other direct relations with Him. So how did they fulfill the requirement?Regarding sin and punishment, you say, "We warn our children of the dangers that surround them. That does not mean we are tempting them to go try it, it means we want them to know why to stay away from it because we love them." True. No problem. But the example you provided is pallid by many orders of magnitude."I know if I didn't tell my son not to touch the hot oven, he would be awfully mad at me if he did and burned himself. The first thing he would say, is why didn't you tell me that was hot! If he touches it to test me to see if I am lying to him, or just trying to scare him, he would not be able to blame me, but he would still be left with a burn. And still as his loving mom, I would not say I told you so, but I would go get the cooling ointment and make it better."As his loving mom, would you leave a pan of boiling water on the stove and tell your son not to touch it because if it fell on him, he might be scaled and disfigured for life? Of course not! You would either remove the pan or ensure that he couldn't get to it. You certainly wouldn't stand by and do nothing. Yet when Eve moved toward the tree to eat its fruit, with consequence much more serious than being scaled and disfigured, God stood by and did nothing. This hardly seems like an act of love. What am I missing?Finally, you say that "God made a way for man - Adam and Eve's children to us, to those after us - to be reconciled and one day those who accepted God's offer of reconciliation will be returned to Eden and be allowed to partake of the tree of life." This would be great news, except for the fact that in order to be reconciled it is first necessary to be estranged. Adam and Eve were estranged through disobedience, but what did their children do to deserve estrangement? More directly, what did I do to become estranged? The concept that I was born sinful because of the transgressions of two people who lived hundreds of generations ago is difficult for me to comprehend. It has been a key question throughout my life, and still is. However, you say you will deal with this issue in Part III. I am very much looking forward to reading it.Kind regards,PhilHi Philip, big smiles, thanks for starting with a point of agreement. :-)What I mean by incest not being then what it is today (and since God declared it forbidden) is just that it wasn't incest. I wasn't thought "wrong" - this goes back to sin being sin simply because God declared it so. I apologize for more sorely lacking feeble attempt to explain myself. I have no other way of explaining it. :-) I am sure many others can give different or better insight, (answersingenesis dot com - or equipthesaints dot com). I think the bottom line is God chose to give two people the task of procreation and then told his people not to do it anymore, I don't know when the word "incest" came about. But again, it goes back to sin being sin, simply because he made it so. I think ultimately, it comes down to knowing God is in charge in His infinite wisdom this is the method he chose. The book of Romans talks about accountablity to God when things are made known to us and before God declared it wrong, it wasn't wrong.Birth defects happen, I think as a natural consequence of our decaying bodies due to original sin. Romans talks about everything being affected - all creation because of the fall of man, this speaks to the power that God gave man when he gave him dominion over all things, but gave that up. So you are right, in this respect it can affect anyone for no apparent reason. -- God point on God deciding enough is enough - He addressess that in the 2 Peter Scripture I quoted.God knows the beginning from the end - he knows how many people throughout all time will acccept him by answering his call - He in his grace, is giving every last person (only he knows who that is) an opprtunity to repent. Romans says, in the fullness of time - for Gentiles (everyone other than the Jews) and the Jews, he is no respector of persons and loves all the world as John 3:16 - he will return and restore things perfect order and all believers throughout time will have fellowship with him in heaven (or new earth after the final judgement day for non believers.)As far as nakedness, I was limited in my explanation - certainly not all cultures or people of cultures think "bad" thoughts", however some do. All I know is God made coverings for them so he must have had a good reason. And the way some people act toward it is evidence enough for me. Like I said, I have no idea, just throwing my thoughts out. :-)We read in Genesis five about the Godly line of Seth - to Noah, and Noah's son's carrying the knowledge of God and following his ways, so though they may not have seen him as Adam and Eve did, He made himself known to them and men followed him, so again, they were only accountable for what they knew Romans 1-6 deals with this indepthly. God is just and says he will make himself known to every person who walks the earth at some point before they die - and then we are accountable for the decision we make.Going back to the temptation Adam and Eve's children receiving the consequence of a sinful nature and exile from the Garden --With respect, I think you are missing the idea or point of free will and freedom of choice. My example of the stove may not have been the best; but the idea is the same. Choice.If God took away the tree of knowledge of good and evil and only the acceptable trees were left, they would not have real freedom to choose, and if no freedom to choose, no need to excersise free will. God wanted a relationship based on choice. and we as humans feel the same, If you were the only man alive and all the women wanted you, do they really have a choice? Do they want you because they are attracted to you? what do they have to compare you to? We could get technical and say that God didn't have to create us at all, or he could have made out without freewill, but what would be the point? God doesn't need us, He wants us. Bottom line is again, He is God and we are not, he designed free will, so we use it.If Adam and Eve's children were born in their perfected state, allowed to be in the Garden, the process would begin all over again, they too would have the choice to choose to obey or disobey, they would probably choose to disobey just like their parents did. We read that God gave Cain an opportunity to repent and have his relationship restored with God after killing Abel, we also read that God talked to Cain about the thoughts that God knew where in his heart and gave him an opportunity to make the better choice. He chose murder., so though they were born with a sinful nature, the still had the freedom to choose God and His good.It is the same with us, there is no escaping the fact that we were all born with a sinful nature and we have to be be born again spiritually for restoration with God. I appreciate your getting to the bottom line in dealing with You personally, because more important of how and why we all were subject to the sin of adam and eve is that we are, and we are responsible to God for our own actions, not anyone elses. I agree, it is a hard concept to comprehend, but we don't have to comprehend it to know it is true. Because if it were not true, you would not have a guilty conscience over the bad things you have done (any one - not just you specifically). And really, it comes down to this, if you were Adam, do you think you would have not eaten of the fruit? Would you have had the will to resist? I don't think I would. We have control to change the state in which you were born, so we really can't use Adam and Eve as an excuse- In effect, we all have the knowledge of the tree of good and evil.I will talk about the concept of reconciliation and God's perfect and permisive will and how it relates to freedom of choice. I too am enjoying our conversations.Blessings for a good day! TeresaHi Again, I added a link at the bottom of the article to an article and website that does a better job than me explaining some of your concerns. Don't think I am turning you away :-), just adding helps :-) I am loving our exchange and others who may add along the way :-)
31 July 2009Dear Teresa,I am very much looking forward to Part III of your series. In anticipation, I have one brief comment and one question concerning your latest message.Concerning nakedness. As you say, if God has declared nakedness a sin, then it is a sin. No question, no disagreement. Nevertheless, it is curious that labelling nakedness a sin seems to have led to a deterioration of the human condition, rather than an improvement.Concerning Cain. You say, "We read that God gave Cain an opportunity to repent and have his relationship restored with God after killing Abel." I can't find mention of this in my Bible. It is in French, so perhaps something was lost in translation. Could you please direct me to the relevant verse? Thanks.Kind regards,PhilHi Philip, thank you again for sticking with me. Again I didn't explain myself very well - I want you to know that God is teaching me through you and is showing me how to think ahead as to how others might think. I am truly thankful for you.I don't believe that the act being naked itself is sin, oh my - all of us would be sinning everytime we took a shower :-), but I do believe it is how we use our nakedness. When Adam and Eve were given coverings, it was not so that they would never be able to be naked in front of eachother, but it was to teach them the appropriate times -( ultilizing the knowledge of good and evil - remember the tree itsself wasn't evil, the fruit released the knowledge of it) in preparation for when their children would come along. I believe this because in 1 Peter we are told that the marriage bed is undefiled and in the song of Solomon and 1 Corinthians that in marriage we have the freedom to enjoy each other in that way whenever and however (except in a harmful or nonmutual kind of way.) The Bible also tells us not to use our bodies to tempt others. (1 Thessalonians)The conversation with Cain can be found in Gen chapter 4. Here is a little bit of it to help you find your way to it in the French Bible. (Still read all of chapter 4)"...but he (God) did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the LORD said to Cain, "why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?" "If you do well, will you not be accepted" And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door, and its desire is for you, but you should rule over it" Genesis 4:5 - 7God knew Cains thoughts and knew that his offering was coming from an arrogant heart, that is why it was not accepted, when Cain got angry, God reached out to him to warn him that if he does not change his thinking, it will lead him to sin (kill his brother). He offered Cain an escape from sin, and told him that he has the ability to rule over it.Then later after Cain killed his brother, Again God called out to him - "What is this you have done" VS. 9-10, giving him a opportunity to repent, but instead he gives God a bad attitude by sayng "I'm not my brothers keeper". It was Cains unwillingness to repent that led to his punishment/consequence of being sent out of the land, but it was also God's grace because He knew Cain would not be safe,he no doubt angered other family members for doing this - can you imagine the first murder? How they must have felt? Even after all of this, God put a mark over cain that no one should avenge Abel by killing Cain. That is grace! You might ask, why did God not stop Cain from muderdering Abel? It goes back to freedom of choice, if God stopped him, he would take away his freedom of choice. Abel was the victim of Cains free will to chose evil over good. Abel was "saved", Cain was not because he never repented, but intead went on to have a family line of evil doers and they did not respect or reach out to God. I hope this helps :-)I should have part 3 done by Sunday. Blessings to you! Teresa
Teresa-I love how timely your writings always are! As always, great research! It did remind me how kids see this story. My son just started his own quest of reading through the Bible. he came out the other night in shock because he always thought God killed Adam. I was shocked how he got that. "He said if you ate from the tree you would surely die," his response. In telling the story, it was always left off about the banishment. this of course provided great discussion, but it made me realize that his view of God was skewed to think that he would kill Adam. He is only 8, but I wonder how misreadings of little things like "God tempting Adam" does skew our view of who God really is. Thanks for clearing this misconception up! Love ya lots, LauraHi Laura, thank you for the encouraging words. Yay for your son! What a blessing that it stirred conversation. I am so glad this was able to assist! Love you lots too! T
1 August 2009Dear Teresa,The English and French Bible's do not seem to be in agreement. Using your Bible, you say that God called out to Cain, "What is this you have done?" Cain replied, "I'm not my brother's keeper." My Bible puts the events in a different order. The Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel, your brother?" Cain replied, "I don't know. Am I my brother's keeper?" Then the Lord said: "What have you done?" Is there some way of determining which version is correct?Best regards,PhilHi Philip, I'm sorry, I did not mean to confuse you, I was only giving you a starting point to find the story, only quoted verse 6-7 and then telling you what to look for next.The English bible reads the same order - here it is - quoting exact from verse 8-11"Now Cain talked with Abel his borther; and it came to pass, when they were in the filed that Can rose uup against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the LORD said to Cain, 'Where is Abel your brother?' He said, "I do not know. Am I my borther's keeper"' And He said, " what is this you have done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. So now you are cursed from the eath which has opene its mouth to receive your brother's blood by your hand."I believe this is the same order your French Bible should read.See how God called out to Cain, giving him an opportunity to repent? When he chose instead to have a bad attitude about it, God pressed him one more time, when he still chose not to confess, God told Cain what he did, (pronounced the case against him) then gave him his punishement (much like what happens in a court of law) In this, Cain had no excuses and could not blame God for his own actions.As we continue in the story, we move down to verse 15 - it should read, "and the LORD said to him, "Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him."In this verse we see God's grace and protection over Cain despite his actions. That mark was not a mark of a curse, like some assume, it was a mark of protection. It is interesting to to note the in the beginning God set a mark for grace, and in the end (book of Revelation) their continues to be a mark of grace.I hope this helps. :-)
1 August 2009Dear Teresa,Yes, it helps to know that the two Bible's are in agreement on the text. But I find a problem with the interpretation.If God's question, "Where is Abel, your brother?" was an offer to repent, in all humility I believe that if I had been Cain, I would not have recognized it as such. True, he could have spontaneously confessed, which he didn't, so perhaps this could be interpreted as a first offer. However, I see nothing that would indicate a second offer. Cain answers the question, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?" God responds, "What is this you have done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. So now you are cursed from the earth which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood by your hand." This sounds like an indictment and judgement, not a second chance.What am I missing?Regards,PhilHi philip, I think it is what we mean by the word repent - I see it in a doctrinal and practical way; practical in that any time someone asks us a question (when we know they already know the answer) it means we have an opportunity to be honest and respond the way they are hoping we will. (Actually, the better word is confess.) So I see this as the first chance, Then later when God says, "what is this you have done?", even though God finishes his statement Cain still could have repented (doctrinally) in admiting what he did was wrong and that he truly felt sorry for what he did.) God would have forgiven him. Instead Cain replied, (in vs 13) "my punishment is greater than I can bear!", this is not a man who was sorry for what he did, he is a man who is sorry he got caught and has to deal with the punishment." True, there was no turning back from his punishment, which was to leave -- the physical and tangible consquences of our choices cannot be changed. (think about how the things we do affect others). But remember there is the spiritual (most important) aspect as well, and Cain chose to leave his spirit in a state of death because he chose not to repent. Instead he left the Lord's presence, not sorrowful and chosing to live better, but to be worse and not raise his children to follow God. Confession and repentance go together, so I was using these words interchangably. I am working on making myself clearer :-)Remember, before Cain made his choice, God told him to rule over the thoughts that would lead him to sin. And remember, God told him, if you do well, will you not be accepted? This was not a one time offer. It is evident through out the entire bible and in countless other scenarios.As long as we have breath we have an opportunity to repent and turn to God, but once we breathe our last breath, we have sealed our fate.Philip, I just want to echo Teresa, REPENT. This means to give up ways of the old and turn on to ways of the new. Make a complete turnaround in the attitude of the heart, make a complete turnaround in the attitude of the heart of the mind, becoming another mind. Keeping in mind that anything learned can be unlearned. We have learned ways of this world, now learn ways of God. It is like taking the old clothes off and putting on new or clean clothes.The ways of this world is corrupt, mothers lay with sons, fathers lay with daughters, men marrying men, women marrying women, parents brutalizing children, children brutalizing parents. Man's love for dogs should be the love going to their brothers. One woman said: "A dog is man's best friend?" "Then she answered hat about me, the woman?" Those of faith have to live in this world, but we do not have to adhere to the wrong of this world. EX: A man will kill his brother...A man of faith will make peace with his brother. Hate your neighbor and steal from him says the world. Man of faith says love thy neighbor and give him if he needs help. When you repent, certain so-called friends will leave you. Why? You do not do what they do anymore. They will talk about you. That is when you know you are different. He still drinks, and you do not want him to see you drink or you do not drink.God did not tempt Adam and Eve. It was a free will obedience that they both missed. Obedience. Faith is the confident obedience in the word of God regardless of the circumstances and/or consequences. This is the Noah faith. Man that do not want to be obedient sticks with: "faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen." Each has to be placed in its own priority.When we say, "Second Chance." Are we trying to say, God forgives sin but you have to pay the debt for that sin. (Remember David left God and went into Bathesheba? The debt was paid by, David's daughter was raped by her brother, another brother then killed him, and David's Nephew Killed that Brother. David's son with Bathesheba died. After the sin debt was paid, then came Solomon.) Did I do good or did I miss it?
Very good explanation that God does not tempt us to sin. I also liked that you included the gospel message.Hi Jeanine, thank you for reading. I think adding the basic message of the gospel is imporant as well. Blessings to you! Teresa
Dr. Rucker, God forgives the debt of our sin, paid for by Jesus. God doesn't add on extra debts, otherwise we would say that Jesus's death on the cross wasn't enough, and we know it was enough to cover our sin. God does discipline those He loves though.Hebrews 12:6FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."
I just wondered why God decided to go through the process of creating mankind knowing that he would sin and this would result in all the terrible suffering since the fall that in recent years has seen around 150 million men, women and children exterminated by communist and fascist for what! It also seems rather stupid to suggest that God knows who will respond to his call and yet he has to wait for them to do so. Why? We are told that Christ will return to reign for a thousand years and then the devil will be releast again for a short period before there will be a new heaven and earth created. All this seems to be a waste of time when God already knows that he will create a new heaven and earth and he already knows who will/will not be in it.Believe it or not but I do have faith but feel it is being made rather complicated by all the experts and all those who cannot see that we have all been born in enemy territory and are in need of saving and that is why we have the bible and God sent his only Son into the world. This, in my humble opinion, is support by the following from 1 John which seems to imply that God held the devil responsible for all that has happened. 1 John 8 He that committeh sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifest, that he might destroy the works of the devil.This does not say that God will only destroy the works of the devil in some and we know for certain that 'God wills that all men will come to repentance' albeit he will not compel them to do so.Just one final point we read in Romans that Paul claimed that God granted him mercy as he acted out of ignorance and unbelief and this surely is the state we are all born in and need saving from.JohnHi John, I think the simplest answer is that He created us to have fellowship with him and Just as the bible says it was for the Joy that was set before Him that He endured the shame and the cross. We are the joy! Life is a gift. Even though some choose to live in and practice evil. And the Scriptures you quote answer your question as well. In the end God will destroy the works of the devil - in the lake of fire. God is patient, waiting for all those who would come to repentance for all time until the very last person accepts His gift of salvation. Only God knows the day and the hour, but the signs are all around us. Did you know that of the 2500 prophecies in Scripture, 2000 have been fulfilled - to the letter?! Most of the remaining 500 are found in the book of Revelation and some we are in the midst of now. Time is drawing near. If the first 2000 where right on, I am willing to bet the last 500 will be as well.Thanks so much for reading and for your input. Blessings to you! Teresa
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